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Partially voiced (All Females voiced)

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#1 by entra
2015-04-08 at 19:45
For the voiced field for releases there's currently options for:
Unknown
Not voiced
Only ero scenes voiced
Partially voiced
Fully voiced

There's a fair number of VNs that have all females, even minor ones fully voiced but no males voiced at all. Would another field, something like "Partially voiced (All Females voiced)" be a good idea? My impression is that people will sometimes put "Fully voiced" even there's a number of main male characters that aren't voiced. I've seen some entries with notes saying only females are voiced but not all the time.

I see under d8.3.3.1 there's "Improve voiced field for releases" so I assume there's some plans to change it in the future but I thought this might be an easy addition.
#2 by shokatsu
2015-04-08 at 20:00
Voice tags can be difficult to handle.

I guess since the VAST majority of VNs have unvoiced protagonist (for obvious reasons) I think it's fair to assume a "Fully Voiced" tag doesn't include Protag.

That's why there is also a Voiced Protagonist tag if I'm not mistaken.

I assume Partially Voiced is something like the Fate/Extra CCC stuff. Where characters often just say a few words/sum up their thoughts despite a full sentence being written.

You know, like when Rin goes "Anta ne !" in a pissy tone and the fully developed sentence have her lash at you for reasons.

I wouldn't mind more detailed tags, but on the other hand I think the current thing works. Maybe change existing tags descriptions to make people understand it excludes the Protagonist if it's not already in.

Dunno.
#3 by minah
2015-04-08 at 20:39
The definition of "Fully Voiced" in d3 specifies that the protagonist and some minor characters may be unvoiced.

"Female Voice Only" is very common, so might be worth having a separate option; but AFAIK most of those cases are nukige that don't have major male characters besides the protagonist, so that already fits under "Fully Voiced" as defined in the guidelines.

If other options are added to the voice field, though, might be worth differentiating partially voiced as in "most characters/most scenes are fully voice acted" from partially voiced as in "occasional lines/battle cries are voiced."
#4 by abyssaleros
2015-04-08 at 20:41
Shokatsu just read the FAQ, I would say.^^
But yes I see the same problems as you Entra as a lot of people set the voiced format to fully voiced although only the female characters are voiced.

P.S. Minah beat me.
@Minah I would not say that nukiges classify for being fully voiced if just the female characters are voiced.
Not every nukige has unimportant male characters as not every OELVN is shitty.Last modified on 2015-04-08 at 20:46
#5 by eacil
2015-04-08 at 21:18
as not every OELVN is shitty.
What?? Did people lie to me? Last year I heard Santa Claus doesn't exist and now... that...
#6 by eacil
2015-05-11 at 23:03
Why Soukou Kijo Iris is partially voiced when the two leading females are voiced (only the men aren't)? Like Abyssaleros did the changes and he has way more experience than me, maybe I didn't understand something...Last modified on 2015-05-11 at 23:03
#7 by takata
2015-05-12 at 04:21
Come to think of it, I should probably change all of the releases for Monmusu Quest! to "only ero scenes voiced". Only a few of the ero scenes are voiced, but I don't think that "only ero scenes voiced" implies that _every_ ero scene is voiced. (Much like Ero animation = "Simple Animations" would not imply that _every_ ero scene had simple animations.)

@#2 shokatsu:
I assume Partially Voiced is something like the Fate/Extra CCC stuff. Where characters often just say a few words/sum up their thoughts despite a full sentence being written.

You know, like when Rin goes "Anta ne !" in a pissy tone and the fully developed sentence have her lash at you for reasons.
I didn't think "Partially Voiced" is supposed to be applied to games where less than a whole sentence is voiced. If the game has just a few voice clips to communicate a mood or feeling, as opposed to reading the actual dialogue, then it's "Not Voiced". For example, Ace Attorney is "Not Voiced", despite the voice for lines like "Objection!" and "Hold It!" adding a lot to the games.Last modified on 2015-05-12 at 04:24
#8 by abyssaleros
2015-05-12 at 19:14
@eacil:
I guess the voice format is best to understand from history.

At the dawn of visual novels most were unvoiced, just because voice artist were expensive and mostly because of the scarce disc space.

Then the disc space hugely increased so that the developers had more space for voices and the money from past projects and a far greater clientele to sell to, so they began to voice their novels.
But still most novels were just partially voiced like Triangle Blue and for an english translated example Zanmataisei Demonbane.
These voiced novels were fully voiced only for a few important scenes and only for some characters, so they are partially voiced.

In contrast a fully voiced novel has all major characters (except the protagonist, if male) voiced throughout the entire novel.

The voiced ero scenes are more or less self-explanatory.

Then you have all these later nukiges and other novels which just have the female cast voiced...

My guess is, this was not thought over to the fullest at the point of creation of the voice formats.
These novels are clearly not fully voiced as the male characters are unvoiced so they are technically partially voiced.
Clearly the female characters are fully voiced throughout the entire novel but is the novel therefore fully voiced?
No it is not.

Unless Yorhel adds a voice format for "Just females (fully) voiced" you will not get a consense with every user about this.

Some argue like Minah in a nukige the male characters are in general unimportant so they tag these as fully voiced.
Others like me say it is true that in most nukiges the male characters are not the important part but from a technical point of view they are still not fully voiced.
Sometimes we add a note that "Only female characters are fully voiced" or so, sometimes we are just lazy and forgot that note...Last modified on 2015-05-12 at 19:45
#9 by eacil
2015-05-12 at 21:00
From a technical point of view, they are still not fully voiced like 80% of VN but from the vndb technical point of view ("usually excluding the protagonist and some minor characters"), they are fully voiced because all the guys in Soukou Kijo Iris are minor rapists characters and you know that fully voiced option doesn't care about males because that's not the information we want to know, not if we can fap on the husky and virile voices of hairy men, just if we will have the same treatment as in Demonbane or if one female character is not voiced because they didn't have the budget, in short, if there will be major discrepancy inside the release. You did a history so why didn't you explain that today the norm is "Just females (fully) voiced" and should be marked as fully voiced in a "major characters" (aka female in a nukige) perspective?
So, if I take Black Lilith, I can find (few) partially and fully voiced for the _exact_ same treatment... that doesn't make any sense.
How much work to add all the needed options in a select input?
#10 by abyssaleros
2015-05-12 at 21:26
I would prefer the additional voice format input.

And as you have a certain point in Iris take a look at Boozok. He is certainly a major (at least not a minor) character but unvoiced.
Technically the novel is therefore just partially voiced for me. (Although it is true that no straight guy misses male voice in his nukige. ;) )

Just take another look towards ntr-related novels (nukige or not).
Usually the males are unvoiced too there, but they are normally major characters as the antagonist(s) of the protagonist is/are certainly (a) major character(s).

So I am just strict here, everything not fully voiced (female and male characters) is partially voiced for me.

And that was the status quo around 2011 as I joined VNDB too.Last modified on 2015-05-12 at 21:30
#11 by skorpiondeath
2015-05-12 at 22:06
I agree with eacil on this matter even though I get the point where missing a single line of voiced dialogue means that the VN is not 100% voiced but is 99,9%. With this logic even a VN with a single CG black and white shuld not considered fully colored? I mean sometime common sense should be more important than 100% accuracy.

This strictness also lead to the point where people tag as they like leaving the DB on a state of inconsistency depending on self opionion on the matter. I could following this reasoning put all Lilith works partially voiced and a week later eacil could tag those novel back in fully voiced...
I vote too for the "Just females (fully) voiced" option, but that's just my opinion :PLast modified on 2015-05-12 at 23:41
#12 by eacil
2015-05-12 at 22:06
@abyssaleros:
Yes but I think that totally miss the point to search if there is or not a male who is or not a major character to tell us if the release is or not fully voiced. Like I said, it's the norm and you too don't care about male voices so I don't understand why you want to defend that position when it is not relevant. There should be a note only when male are voiced in fact. A male, even the boss of the rapist, is not a major character in a fappable point of view.
And there is nukige with male voices which target is not fujoshi but males, I am talking about otokonoko. If one of those was not voiced, that would be a partially voiced release.

That the second time in a week (after the animation) that a criteria is reconsidered and each time the verdict is that nobody agree with each other and that the majority don't know what to put because it's too fuzzy.Last modified on 2015-05-12 at 22:08
#13 by silence
2015-05-13 at 14:12
Maybe we should rename "Fully voiced" to "Mostly voiced" (protag and/or minor characters are not voiced)?
After that, let's add "Fully voiced" again (protag and all chars are absolutely and fully voiced).
#14 by entra
2015-05-13 at 18:54
@12
You're right that I don't think most people (including myself) care too much if the males are voiced in most cases, especially Nukige.

That said there are times when it's nice to know if major male characters are voiced. Abyssaleros brought up NTR VNs which I think is a good example; it was actually this genre that prompted the thread. I was seaching for VNs where the antagonist is voiced but gave up using the field since there's no consistency. E.g. a bunch of Atelier Sakura VNs are listed as fully voiced but I know that the major male(s) aren't from actually playing them.

Extra inputs seemed like a reasonable solution to me. If a female option is added, it would be fair to add male option too (unless it's a super rare occurrence; I guess some Otome games have all males voiced but major females unvoiced?).
#15 by takata
2015-05-19 at 11:16
I think the current system can be kept. If there are very few unvoiced lines from very minor characters, I'd mark the release as "fully voiced". "Very minor" is a bit open to interpretation, but I'll agree that not all male characters in nukige are minor enough, and antagonists in NTR-genre VNs are probably not minor enough (still, depends on how much screen time the writer gave them).

Alternatively, you add an option to the dropbox between "Partially voiced" and "Fully voiced". Call this option "Female or male characters fully voiced". It means all female characters (or all male characters for an otome game) are fully voiced, with the possible exception of _very_ minor background characters who probably don't even have a sprite.

Alternatively, you could have several sets of radio buttons to specify which types of characters are voiced and when, but that would almost certainly be excessive.Last modified on 2015-05-19 at 11:22
#16 by eacil
2015-05-24 at 01:30
Like for the other thread, "enough chitchat, now we need an OFFICIAL statement about those matters" + if they have the will to make the choices evolved. The main problem would be to do the conversion more than adding new choices in the select output.
#17 by kuronyan
2018-10-23 at 09:09
hello, still confused on what should be chosen regarding this situation, should it be partially or fully voiced?

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